Its the expert who gets caught up in the routine and stops paying attention. Thats deflecting from the real issue. I sold that pistol when I got it back. A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. It upgraded its P320 pistols in October 2018, before the middle school incident, spokeswoman Amanda. He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. there is no better. Going on Sigs reputation I bought a P320. They function as commanded every time. Got a 40 SW P320 SC on my hip now, got one in 9mm within reach, so far neither has decided to trip the sear without my help. Whats this silly BS? and youve gotten this far reading our thread. And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? You have entered an incorrect email address! This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a [SIG] P320, said the statement, which was released Friday and posted to a U.S. online pro-industry publication, Soldier Systems. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. Big public relations disaster and Sig tries a second time to get the piece of shit to work and not go off when dropped. These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. TidalWave Professional Aug 25, 2021 #17 Bassbob said: Somehow I seriously doubt the guns just shot themselves. Look a fanboy. No picture for me. Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. The HK VP70 was made in 1970 when Gaston Glock was making curtain rods. . Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. I lost $200 on a gun that had less then 1000 rounds through it but I could care. They have hundreds of thousands of P320s in regular service now and, despite a search, we couldnt find a rash of reports of soldiers claiming their pistols are firing on their own. Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army 's Modular Handgun System is based. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. Jeff Bagnell, a lawyer in Westport, Conn., who has litigated 10 cases, mostly by commercial gun owners, related to SIG P320 misfires across several U.S. states, took note of the accident involving the Canadian special forces soldier. After the accident the unit returned to using the SIG P226 they had planned to replace with the P320. Everyone remember the video of the DEA agent shooting himself while explaining that he was highly qualified to carry a gun? Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. The use of a modified [SIG] P226 holster created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster, causing the unintended discharge.. Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. Is it? For instance theres Lieutenant Thomas Ahern who was was performing a routine function (test) of his P320 when it fired at him without any force towards the trigger, resulting in the bullet impacting his left thigh.. They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. It may be a rotten trigger, but it does highlight the fact it has a much lighter trigger compared to classic semi-autos and revolvers. Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging By Tom Knighton | 11:30 AM on October 30, 2021 AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast Several years ago, there was an issue discovered with the. The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. Im a Kirk guy, a Shatner Kirk guy. I would trust the intelligence of a Gorilla in a zoo before any one in the Far Right. And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). Sound familiar? how do I get one for my P320? Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. The military is already shopping for a new sidearm. This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. If this were a car, a phone, a refrigerator, it would have been recalled long ago. Because its flat out bull**it. U.S. lawsuits You would have to conclude theres a problem with the product, not with the people., In the Nightline version, Bagnell says, Firearms are not subject to federal regulation. in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. Oct 20, 2022 #36 ; vh20 said: . They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. To give you an example of early self-propelled lawn mowers if you lost your grip on the handles the mower would not shut off and it would take off on its own right down the street all by itself. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). I mean hey, yelling about firearms preferences online is no more productive than discussing nerdy Star Trek stuff, is it? (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. In 1974 if you bought a Colt 1911, you left the gun store and then immediately took it to your favorite gunsmith and said Make it work it with Super-Vels, please. You cant get away with that today. Sig P320 is just one of many pistols with Safety related. The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! Just 3 days ago, a Florida Corrections recruit killed herself by a negligent discharge during firearms training. The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. Once word of that got out there was an avalanche of sexual harassment lawsuits against Fox news. Have you ever noticed that big trouble usually comes in groups of 3. That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. Really? (a) A person commits an offense if the person recklessly discharges a firearm inside the corporate limits of a municipality having a population of 100,000 or more. I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. Zero in the affirmative. . How about something more relevant. The Hide Armory. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. Sigs bid was low because they were still pissed after being beat by Beretta in cost. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. That a shirt tail or jacket cinch cord slips into a holster. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. It sure wasnt her fault though, because she was flooring the. Dont care for them, not my jam. (c) If conduct constituting an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under another . JTF-2 is the only unit in. Each incident gives them more blood for their macabre dance, and another tic-mark for their context-free gun violence tally. Here is a movie that he filmed 40 years ago and he was still raking it in. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. Thats fine. Being prosecuted and convicted of a third degree felony in Texas can lead to: Incarceration in a Texas state prison for a term of two years or up to 10 years. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. The P320s and P365s were junk, plain and simple. Post again when you buy a real gun that you can defend yourself with. Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. It provides another example of how the gun free zone purportedly keeps people safe by not only keeping guns away, but by requiring more discharges nearby. You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. How many times did Shatner actually watch it? Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. I carry one in my front pocket routinely. There was nothing wrong with the Glock action, it was a training issue. The one officer in the ABC story had it wrapped in a rag in his gym bag? But it hardly indicts the P320 as a badly engineered weapon or that its worse than another brand. But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. 01:10. Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. 2) The p320 does have a half cocked notch. Grow up, you aint all that! It takes time for any new platform to work the kinks out. The military has found that the pistol has a tendency to eject live rounds among other issues. So does any of this mean theres something wrong with the P320? He points to it in the video. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. LOL! This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. (The defect couldnt be duplicated after the crash.). Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. I dunno if its a case of lowest bidders blues or what. Fair enough. But this time, the sound bites used were different. Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. Additional questions about the Voluntary Upgrade Program are answered in the FAQ. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. Canadas highly-trained counterterrorism force, JTF-2, is the only military unit with the SIG P320 in its inventory right now. They did, however, note that when they were contacted by ABC, the company pointed out specific circumstances that were subsequently uncovered in the investigations of a number of these incidents. The U.S. manufacturer went a step further in its statement Friday, stating without evidence or attribution, that the timing of the article was intended to undercut its chances in the federal governments upcoming bid to replace all of the handguns in both the military and RCMP. Ill go so far as to say the first batch of Sig P320s did nothing wrong. My dad owned one and that is exactly what happened one time when he was using it. Why you and I are arguing over a gun that neither owns or will own, The guys at the LGS saw only one broken striker but it confirmed what the manager who had the P320 go off and my thoughts. Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. Sig P320 discharge while holstered. I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. I would trust a hungry lion on the Serengeti plains of Africa more than I would a C.E.O. It has nothing to do with Glock. The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? Ron, BAM. I have no idea. I am also very much a DS9 fan, best series overall. Ditto; that's what i was getting at earlier Bear007 Custom Aug 25, 2021 #18 The probable reason that some folks are saying that the P320 is unsafe is that there was a lawsuit filed in federal court in July of 2020 (Guay v. Sig Sauer) alleging that the 320 fired "un-commanded" without a trigger pull while in a holster. Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. A fellow kept his DA revolver in the desk. Theres a couple of possibilities. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. Sounds like these officers and others are attempting to cover their posteriors. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. The SIG will be the shortest military contract for guns in history. Bagnell also represented Virginia Sheriffs Deputy Marcie Vadnais who sued SIG when she said her P320 went off on its own when she was removing the weapon from her belt. Vadnais was featured in the Nightline version of ABCs report. If these same folks were around in the 80s and got their way, no one today would know what a Glock was. https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-iN4Wr8P_P2lGU6m2M5Rd8F6tVxyeeWdzleA_0eUoKjB0wER5wbVU_ouLj3uKCvLmUWhjIv2uHVC2R0Wv8Q9VgQ/messages/@.id==AMxkWSMoHX4bYSzMKA0AINojDH4/content/parts/@.id==2/refresh?appid=YMailNorrinLaunch&ymreqid=ae6c4f7d-acdd-ffa3-1c80-d70000011c00. The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. I dont own a Glock or a SIG and am not a fanboy of either. LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. Bagnell told TTAG that he believes the problem with the striker-fired P320 is an inadequate sear/striker connection (he has images he says illustrate this on his website). First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. Remember the stupidity of the far right is infinite and the blind greed of the gun makers prove they could not care less about human life and suffering. They are being replaced with Glocks. Bagnells and other lawsuits ABC claims at least 54 discharges and 10 suits against SIG describe instances of P320s going off dating back to 2016, prior to the upgrade. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. Its just that with hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of more than one-third of the countrys population including a lot of cops some number of negligent discharges will inevitably happen. https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. The Government mandated it to be made more safe to use and was. The problem was strikers. In 2021 you would think a company would understand MIM metallurgy. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. An x-ray (fluoroscope) of the mechanism in operation could show what, if anything, is happening inside the gun that might prove, or disprove, the contention that the gun is flawed. Still waiting. Use a proper holster and follow other gun safety protocols. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. Dude, your story is THREE years old. congrats. Hello perpetrators, Lee Paige is clearly the gift that keeps on giving though our buddy Hunter Biden is a close second! They passed every state and national drop test requirement out there. People of the Gun are probably familiar with the early problems the P320 had regarding drop safety.